Over at the Vice Podcast, R Street’s Reihan Salam interviews Anya Kamenetz, staff writer for Fast Company and a columnist for Tribune Media, about the state of higher education and student debt, as presented in her books “Generation Debt,” “DIY U” and the forthcoming “The Test.”

“It’s unconscionable what we’re doing to people under the guise of offering them opportunity,” Kamenetz says.

Watch the full interview below.